keep going...

Do I count as anybody else?

 Traz,

I am all for each his own,   but Think about  you plan if you take it out a few years.

you are offering a luxury item, meaning it is not needed to live.  It is an extra.

you are offering it at  mass market prices.      so gas goes up, comEd goes up,  ink, camera, your kids shoes  healthcare  etc...  up up up.   well now you have to raise your prices, they keep going up until the target market you have around you cannot afford you.

Then you are stuck.  your brand is firmly in the " mass market"  catagory.  the next market up will not touch you.

It is your business, do what you want. but   know you are skating  near the edge of the cliff.

wendiandtravis:

Do I count as anybody else?

maybe,  as long as you don't talk about baby poop!    :) 

 Traz,

You said:

"Hey, I love the big sales as well as anyone, but it just doesn't always happen that way.  My average sales are probably $400-$500.  So I would rather choose to sell 3 orders at $400-$500 than 1 at $1000. 

Are you saying that your  set up and editing and proof time is the same for 3 showings as it is for 1?

so, to recap, this is a conversation done a hundred times here.

Traz wants to be sure she's priced for the mid-low end of the market

Dave says don't forget to at least try for bigger tickets

Some interpret Dave's comment as ignore the low-middle

Dave thinks that the low to middle can be the high ticket, if asked and approached properly

This is based on an out of state friend of his lamenting not being able to afford the $2300 package she got for one of her seniors, and only being able to spend $1200. I'm not sure of her family income but I think it's in the $40-50K a year bracket...

So Dave will remind folks not to try to sell what they can afford or will spend, but rather to encourage customers to spend much more by believing in themselves and their products, and not prejudging their customers.

How's that for a recap Patrick?

Dave,

I'm not patrick, but I thoroughly enjoyed and followed, and AGREED with your recap!

And Lisa Walsh will say "Hallelujah" she reevaluated her wedding pricing and saved her business and sanity and got a life

And someone lphoto was helping is going to say she re-evaluated her pricing, charged more, got better customers and changed her life for the better

txmensan will say he charges and obscene amount for his 8x10s and folks are happy to pay it

and...

sorry if this sounds too snarky

Dave

What I make in ONE wedding now, I was shooting 3-4 weddings two years ago to make the same amount.  I have the same amount of weddings booked as I did 2 years ago but am now making 3-4 times as much per wedding.  I would rather shoot less and make more than shoot more and make less.  My time is way to valuable.

And Patrick was the main motivator in getting my prices up there.  I thank you for that.

I am the someone Iphoto was helping... yeah...

Now can we sticky this thread?....

Patrick:

Are you saying that your  set up and editing and proof time is the same for 3 showings as it is for 1?

   But you didn't quote the rest of the comment.  If I shoot 3, I get 3 sitting fees, not one, plus more referrals from 3 people than one.  Now if those 3 refer 3, etc, etc.,to me it is worth it.  I have yet to mail a advertisement to any seniors & word of mouth keeps me as busy as I want to be.

 I have been in a position in the past where I was not working because of serious illness & my spouse's company went out of business about the same time.  I know what it is like to wonder where the next meal will come from.  I don't want someone to have to decide between having precious memories or putting food on the table, whether some consider it a luxury item or not. I guess i don't think that way.  I have done 2 kids where the Mom's had cancer.  They couldn't afford $1000 for photos.  I don't remember off hand what they did spend, but it sure would have sucked if they couldn't afford a "luxury" because of their family situation.To me because they can pay more doesn't make them "better customers"  My prices are actually pretty close to Marties.

 I also go every year to the school guidance counselor & tell her, " If you know of a some seniors who you feel can't afford senior photos let me know"  I provide a shoot & photos for free. 

   Guess I look at it kind of like my truck.  I didn't get the "luxury" Caddy EXT because I couldn't afford it.  Instead I bought the more affordably priced Chevy Avalanche.  Pretty much same truck except a few bells & whistles, but if it wasn't an option I guess I would be walking.  I am glad in America we have choices.

 I have been debating whether or not to post my comments... but take it with a grain of salt, and know that I typed it while my kiddos where playing and there may be a few typos.

Traz, you shoot three and get three sitting fees, but if you get one referral from a large sitting fee, then wouldn't it be better than getting three from smaller?

Ex. Let's Say I have a $1000 client, and I have a $300 client.  You get one referral from each.  Your $1000 client just turned into a $2000, and your $300 client is only $600 now. Yet you are doing the exact same amount of work for both. We can go with your math.  You get one referral from your $1000 client. Still $2000 from that client.  You get 3 referrals from your $300 client.  That client has now brought in $1200.  Less than the first, and you have twice the amount of work. 

It is obvious that you are a caring person, I understand you want to provide a service for those that cannot afford the higher end.  But you are limiting yourself and your business by charging little for your time.  Most of my senior reps are students that cannot afford high priced photos, but they will work to get my name out there and earn them. 

Do you think the makers of that luxury Caddy are saying... hey, I know that the economy is bad, and we are sure everyone would like a luxury caddy.  Let's sell if for the price of an avalanche so that they can have a precious luxury car?  No. I can tell you that if people are making choices with their money based on whether or not they will have food, photography is NOT high on their priority list. 

Just my $.02.

  Just because a person spends $1000 doesn't mean the person they referred will spend $1000.  Just the same, a person that spends $300 doesn't mean the person they refer will only spend $300.  I mentioned before, (may have been in previous thread) My biggest sale was from a referral from a mediocre sale.  The referral probably spent 3-4 times what the original person spent.

 If you raise your prices, you just might be able to afford that Caddy. 

 Traz,

You should do what you're comfortable with. Keep in mind I'm not charging anyone right now! 

We've seen this pattern before though... lot's of people have walked in your shoes.

Dave

Traz:

Patrick:

Are you saying that your  set up and editing and proof time is the same for 3 showings as it is for 1?

   But you didn't quote the rest of the comment.  If I shoot 3, I get 3 sitting fees, not one, plus more referrals from 3 people than one.  Now if those 3 refer 3, etc, etc.,to me it is worth it.  I have yet to mail a advertisement to any seniors & word of mouth keeps me as busy as I want to be.

 I have been in a position in the past where I was not working because of serious illness & my spouse's company went out of business about the same time.  I know what it is like to wonder where the next meal will come from.  I don't want someone to have to decide between having precious memories or putting food on the table, whether some consider it a luxury item or not. I guess i don't think that way.  I have done 2 kids where the Mom's had cancer.  They couldn't afford $1000 for photos.  I don't remember off hand what they did spend, but it sure would have sucked if they couldn't afford a "luxury" because of their family situation.To me because they can pay more doesn't make them "better customers"  My prices are actually pretty close to Marties.

 I also go every year to the school guidance counselor & tell her, " If you know of a some seniors who you feel can't afford senior photos let me know"  I provide a shoot & photos for free. 

   Guess I look at it kind of like my truck.  I didn't get the "luxury" Caddy EXT because I couldn't afford it.  Instead I bought the more affordably priced Chevy Avalanche.  Pretty much same truck except a few bells & whistles, but if it wasn't an option I guess I would be walking.  I am glad in America we have choices.

Traz,

(bTW,  I am from Cleveland Lakewood  + Perry myself)  
I did have the whole quote in there at first, then I shortend it to save time.    YOU did not answer my question,set up, edit and tear down ?    does it take the same amount of time?    no.  it can't.   so you are spending more time ( do I need to remind you how many famous people dies last week?  who wished they had more time....  not  more sittings?)

Here is an interesting  stat.        the top 20%   spend  70% of the  entertainment dollars in the economy! 
What does that mean?  it means     1 high end client  will get you 3 or 4 times as much business as  the lower end.   I will put a  "connected" high end client up against your 3 low end clients any day. 

so what are you going to do  when your base costs outstrip your market?    You will have spent a lot of money getting your name out there to the people who can no longer afford you.   ( BTW - the " middle" income people you are aiming for  lose 5% of their spending power EACH  year.  I am not a numbers guy, so YOU do the numbers....

You are trying to sell  Diamonds to  poor people  saying   "Hey!   that is my decision! "   Yes it is.    you will have to live with it.

As for the Cancer situation,  do what I do. It is an " all or nothing" type of situation.  I shoot about 4 times a month,  I clear about +- $1,000 sitting fee a shoot ( down from last year) after expenses.   I don't sell prints.  I ALWAYS get about $1,000 if I pick up the camera.  Now,  I have  26 other days where I can shoot some group with a ribbon next to their name.    Find your cause and shoot it for free! there you go!   shoot the cause that you believe in.  How/why?  because you made you money elsewhere.   Charity is charity. 

I too, like you, have not spent a dime on marketing.in 7 years.  If  your system works for you, than that is great!  but....  when the money is not there, in 36 months....    and the change was so slow that you did not realize it,   please refer to this post. 

Traz:

  Just because a person spends $1000 doesn't mean the person they referred will spend $1000.

My mentor said this YEARS ago ( early 90's)   " show me your friends, I will tell you how much you have in the bank! "

Koppi is right.  it is more likely to work the way she said LONGER than what you said.

Oh, and include that part about you caring!  that is good   don't lose that!

  I doubt the person that spends $1000 a sitting fee would want to come to my home studio for a shoot.  I have absolutely no desire to get a studio away from home with the the cost and extra hassle that goes with it.  I am too old & not healthy enough for that.  If I was, I would still be working as an RN.  If I charged $1000 a sitting I would have 0 clients & make $0 money.  

 A thought I have on the whole pricing thing.  Everyone knows I am a proponent for getting paid for your work, charging what you are worth, and aiming high.  However, not everyone can be a high-end photographer, or high-end would mean nothing.  If you are happy with your fees, whether you are charging $10, $100, or $1000, and you do not feel like you are wasting your time, then you are ok.  If you are unhappy with how things are going, then change.  I used to say I wanted to be a photographer for those that couldn't afford pro images, but burned out on being taken advantage of and shooting simply because I was a photographer.  I wanted my creativity, my passion, to be valued and respected, and for me that meant greatly increasing my prices.  I am very happy where I am now, and I do charge quite a bit, and will be raising my prices this fall again, but at the same time, I completely, absolutely understand that not everyone feels the desire or need to do this.

Every market needs a variety of price ranges to keep it alive.  There are people that want good images that can't afford the high-end ones, but are willing to pay more than WalMart prices.  How fair is it to exclude them from having pro images taken?

 I think there is a line between just charging high prices because everyone says to do it, and charging high prices because you want to do it.  Diane, if you are comfortable with what you are doing, then more power to you.  At least you are charging something and not totally undercutting other pros.  It's not a question of what you are charging as much as it is giving your work value and making sure you are taken care of.

lphoto:

A guy goes on vacation and look what he misses.

I have said it before - You can fry hamburgers or you can grill steak.   Steak tastes much better.

I totally agree.  Some people just don't like steak, though.

I personally prefer pork, red meat makes me sick to my stomach.  :)

Except I like my photography clients rare. :)

  This way sometimes I get hamburg & sometimes I steak.  I like variety.  As much as I like steak I would get tired of it all the time. LOL