Hello everyone. I am new here. I have a question about the crop factor. Is there always gonna be a crop factor concern. I just switched from the canon 20D to the 5D. I was thinking that with the full sensor size that there would not be a crop factor involved when ordering larger prints. Am i  just totally dumb to this??? I love close up photography and i have a hard time staying back on my subjects to give me enough crop room to overcome the stinkin' crop factor when i order larger prints. Please help? Also is there any suggestions on how to fix an image in photoshop... lets say i took a really close up portrait... when i order an 8X10 the majority of the picture is cropped when ordering... How do i fix it so i can get the entire print in an 8X10 or larger. Thanks in advance for the help. BDPHOTO

 

What you are calling "crop factor" is aspect ratio.  "Crop factor" is a term used to describe the differance in angle of view for a lens when the format size of the sensor/film changes.  Aspect Ratio is the difference between the lenght to width ratio of sensor/film format.  For example The Canon 5D has a  sensor size of 35.8x23.9mm (35.8 divided by 23.9 =1.497 aspect ratio), 10x8 inch print has a (10 divided 8 ) 1.25 aspect ratio.  If you enlarge the 23.9mm (.975inche) sensor image 8.2 times then the lenght of 35.8mm (1.409inch) sensor image becomes 11.557 inches.  Yes their will always be some croping of the image when you go from one aspect ratio to another.  The sizes that you can print with no croping are 2x3, 4x6, 6x9, 8x12, 10x15, 12x18, 16x24, 20x30, and 40x60.  The Cannon 20D has a 22.5x15MM sensor size which is the same aspect ratio.  It does give you a field of view crop  (FOV) which means that on the camera, you will see a smaller field of view with a given focal lenght lens.  The 1.6 FOV crop (in comparision with the 5D) means that field of view with a 20D with a 50mm lens will be the same as a 5D with a 80MM lens.

Welcome by the way!  Joe gave a great explanation, so I'll just answer one part of your question.  How do you keep the whole pic?  By putting it on a layer and adding it to a solid colored background.  I've done this a few times too, and not left enough room for cropping, say for an 8x10, I'll make a new background layer, fill it with black, and put the image on that layer, leaving about 1/2" around it.

Then I ususally add a stroke line around it to set it apart from the black.  It just looks better whne you have to do this.

Your camera shoots pictures at a 2:3 aspect ratio (height vs. width or vice versa depending on landscape or portrait)... so all you need to do is order prints that are multiples of that ratio...

2:3 x 2 = 4:6 or 4x6

2:3 x 4 = 8x12 (not 8x10, that would be the same width, but you'd have to cut 2 inches off the bottom)

2:3 x 10 = 20x30

and so on...

You have to remember that you can't stretch your image to fit any size box, or you will distort the image... do you have a widescreen tv?  You would know that there is a setting that will stretch a regular TV image sideways (basically making a square picture fit into a rectangular screen), but everyone looks distorted when you do that... it's the same with images.

I'll second Rion's suggestion about what sizes to order. MPix is one of only a handful of printers that offer 2:3 aspect ratio paper in larger sizes.

4x6
6x9
8x12
10x15
12x18
16x24
20x30

Granted, you can't run to Wal-Mart and get an 8x12 frame. But you do preserve your artistic vision. Custom frames aren't all that expensive, especially when you consider how much better they look and enhance you photos than cheap frames. I order a lot of 6x9 prints myself.
 

Thanks BD Photo for asking these ?. I have been wondering all this myself! Have had a few problems as well and I have done what was suggested to you about placing the photo onto a colored background. For my personal stuff I do not mind doing this but not everyone wants this. I run across this problem when trying to do a 16x20 portrait for a girl for her wedding reception. So thanks for asking the ? and I am taking the advice of everyone too. Cindy

Thanks so much for the detailed explaination. I do understand now...but i still don't like this when it comes to ordering a larger print. I guess i will have to get over it, huh? Thanks again for your help.. Greatly appreciated. Beth

BDPhoto:

Thanks so much for the detailed explaination. I do understand now...but i still don't like this when it comes to ordering a larger print. I guess i will have to get over it, huh? Thanks again for your help.. Greatly appreciated. Beth

Unless you can change most of the laws of mathematics, yes...  

One suggestion if you really want to print 8x10's....I had "crop lines" put on my screen of my 20D.  I used a guy in California - I know I posted info on this way back when (see if you can search and find it).  Basically, it gives me a line showing where an 8x10 picture would be cropped.  I was always "coloring outside the lines" so to speak and found that I was always cropping something I didn't want to (I too, tend to get in close).  It's worked for me.  I'm about to have it done on my 5D now....except I hate to send it out (I hope the guy will come back to Dallas again sometime soon).

There's a post on here somewhere pointing to a shop that sells overlays for the eyepiece or focus screen with the crop marks on them.

 

There have been a lot of comments here about cropping and a lot of people are confused about it.  If you are shooting for customers who might want 8x10 or 5x7 prints, this page could be a big help to you...

http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/page--Custom-Grid-Crop-Lines--gridlines.html

The short version is that you can change your focusing screen and have a new one that shows you where the 8x10 and 5x7 crop points are, enabling you to shoot confidently with enough dead space around a subject to know that you can crop to that size without losing any subject matter.

Last spring when searching for frames for my show I found that many places carried frames and mats for that aspect ratio, in some places 8x12 was as common as 8x10.

I've never HAD to order an 8x12 for a customer, but I do offer it if they don't want to lose any part of the picture.  I do crop in camera though so it hasn't been an issue. .  I do have one picture of my son that I got closer than I wanted so I had it printed in an 8x12 and then matted it to a 12x16 and I LOVE it  .. . it makes it enough bigger that it looks very nice hanging and doesn't seem like  postage stamp hanging on the wall!

BDPhoto:

Thanks so much for the detailed explaination. I do understand now...but i still don't like this when it comes to ordering a larger print. I guess i will have to get over it, huh? Thanks again for your help.. Greatly appreciated. Beth

You don't have to necessarily "get over it"... you just need to learn how to plan ahead and leave yourself some room when you are shooting something you might want to order an enlargement of.

I had the same problem with my camera--same aspect ratio as yours.  I finally figured out that to get those 8x10's that everyone likes, I just have to leave a lot of space around the subject when I take the picture.  Then I do all of the edits on the uncropped (duplicated) picture and save it.  When I need different sizes of portraits, I duplicate the edited one and make my crops, then save it as that size.  I know that you should shoot so you don't have to crop a lot out, but with this aspect ratio and most people wanting 8x10's, you just have to do it.  I haven't really noticed that my pics have suffered because of it.  I love the look of 8x12's, but I called every place in town that sells frames and not one place sells them!  To get them custom made is outrageous, too.  I did find several places online that sell 8x12, though.

Did you try Hobby Lobby and Michaels for 8x12 frames? I am pretty sure that I have seen them there and they have regular sales on frames, just stock up when they go on sale.

Our Hobby Lobby does not carry 8x12 in their framing stock . . . but others may . . . but as I mentioned earlier the 12x16 with a mat look really nice!  So when they do have sales I will buy a few to have on hand! 

8x12 is not a traditional size.  It was introduced by Kodak Labs in the 1980's as a way around the complaints about croping.  The idea was that the customer would have a print that had no croping and they could decide what part of the picture they wanted to loose when they put it in a 8x10 frame. 

Yea I been having the same problem trying to figure it out, I have a Canon 20D I noticed 13x19 , 11x17 I believe I can get the full print 11x14 is cropped. Here is my question I noticed 16x20 frames have a matte with an opening for an 11x14 print, that is good if you don't mind cropping the pic or left enough room to make it an 11x14. Im wondering let's say I crop my image 11x17 which I believe gives me full size with out cropping what size matte/frame would be good for that, because if I went with a 16x20 frame the opening on the matte is going to be off top/bottom not even all around, if I am making sense. Im at work so im trying to type this quick. Basically anyone know the size of the matte/frame for specific size of the photos.

My camera manual says that it takes pictures in 3:2 is that the same as you mentioned - 2:3. And do I figure the print sizes the same way. I am having trouble with my pictures being chopped off too.

thanks

donna 

3:2 is the horizontal ...2:3 is the vertical

 Aspect ratios can be frustrating.  Especially when you have not way of know what the customer wants.  When you shoot for yourself only, and you know how you will hang it on the wall, it's not as big a deal.  You crop it in the camera.  I tend to shoot all my images with the worst case scenario in mind....the dreaded 8x10

Hey the lightbulb just went on!! I finally get it! Thank you, this site rocks!!

Joe, this is a source of so much frustration for consumers!  Do you have any idea why the companies that make presized frames and mats are so resistant to  adjusting things on their end?   I don't understand it!  I'm with Ryan, I like 8x12's!  

shannone:

Joe, this is a source of so much frustration for consumers!  Do you have any idea why the companies that make presized frames and mats are so resistant to  adjusting things on their end?   I don't understand it!  I'm with Ryan, I like 8x12's!  

Sorry for the delay in answering, but I have been moving with no access to internet. 

Remember that 8x10's not 8x12's were proportional to medium format "professional film formats"  In my 40+years of photography, I have worked more with cameras that had a 8x10 aspect ratio then ones that had a 8x12 ratio.   So I like 8x10's better then 8x12's.  Change comes slowly.  My guess is that a lot of frame and mat manf. do not see enought of a demand for 8x12's to make a investment in producing a lot of frames and mats in that size.  Simple a matter of invintory control.  Less sales volumn and less return on investment.