I am finding myself in need of a good on-camera flash, as well as some studio strobes. I have some different situations coming up this summer, and will need the flash for those. I need some good studio strobes because I'm just not getting quite enough light from my current set-up.

I've been debating about getting either Alien Bee 800's or a kit I saw on B&H from Interfit/Paterson. Minimal pricing difference between the two, but obviously we're talking several hundred dollars. Now I also want to get the Canon Speedlight 580EX because I've heard such great recommendations from it. We're talking another 350-400 dollars. Buying both are simply out of the question. I'm not made out of money. Ha ha ha.

However.... this is my thought process.... Why couldn't I buy the 580 with the transmitter as well as an umbrella, stand, etc, and use that for a strobe? If I felt I needed a second strobe, I could just use the one I have here and get a slave foot for it. (The one I have is not compatible with my Rebel, thus the need for a new one.) I'm looking at about the same in cost as a single Alien Bee, but would have a lot more portability. I know that I would have less power with the 580 vs the AB, but would it be that much less? (I looked - the Guide Number for the 580 is 190 feet. For the AB800, it's 172 or 320 depending on the reflector used.)

Thoughts? Comments? Input?

Thanks!
Nicole

I have the 580EX, and LOVE it!  It is a very powerful flash.  The extra bit of goodnes is that when used with another 580 or 430 as I have, it is wireless E-TTLII.  Then with the transmitter, that I am getting Saturday, Both can be set up on stands and brollys, and fired wirelessly.

So yes, I believe it is a good idea if funds are micromanaged as mine are.

 

JK

Is the wireless E-TTLII something that can be used wih the Rebel XT?

That is the name for the "Automatic" exposure on the Canon EOS cameras.  I think the XT has it, yes.

JK

Thanks!

Just bumping for the daytime crowd and to get more opinons - good or bad.

Thanks!

I just recently got an Alien Bee 800 and I've shot w/ pro photo 600's before that and I must say the Alien bee is WAY WAY nicer than the prophotos (and less $$)  They are so much easier to move around, transport and they are QUIET (if you take pics of kids you know the need for this)  I definately recommend the alien bee.  I dont have or have never had the need for an external flash yet :)  I use mostly natural light w/ a reflector and break out the studio light w/ softbox whenI need some extra even lighting to add in :)

 Also if you are on a budget and want one quick I recomend not getting the kit, just getting the AB 800, light stand, and BROLLY BOX...it works just like a softbox basically but IMO spreads light out a bit better.  I have both an honestly PREFER the brolly box.  Plus it was only $367 shipped for all of those, which is really reasonable!

I actually have the 580ex AND the Paterson Interfit Stellar strobes.  The flash is fantastic and can be used as a strobe, so I think that would work.  I had an event where I had to shoot 40 different families for 5 nights.  A fellow photographer and I went in before to figure out how we would set up the strobes, and realized that we were really asking for trouble if we set the strobes up because of the limited space.  We tried using our flashes (580ex) right on our cameras and the pictures turned out beautiful!  They looked like we had used strobes!  So, yes, you can use the flash as effectively as the strobes. 

Now I know most people on here use the AB's, but I went with the Stellars mainly because they were built a little tougher (the casing isn't plastic like the AB's) and the price was about $50 less per strobe.  I love mine!  They work great.  The recycle time is a little faster than what is listed and they have SUPER customer service!

Jeff Kindy:

I have the 580EX, and LOVE it!  It is a very powerful flash.  The extra bit of goodnes is that when used with another 580 or 430 as I have, it is wireless E-TTLII.  Then with the transmitter, that I am getting Saturday, Both can be set up on stands and brollys, and fired wirelessly.

So yes, I believe it is a good idea if funds are micromanaged as mine are.

 

JK

Just wanted to see how you liked the transmitter now that you've had some time to play with it. (Hopefully.) I've been reading my eyeballs out on flash setups and have heard some people have had trouble with the transmitter.

Still haven't made any purchases yet. Still researching!!!

monicab28:

I actually have the 580ex AND the Paterson Interfit Stellar strobes.  The flash is fantastic and can be used as a strobe, so I think that would work.  I had an event where I had to shoot 40 different families for 5 nights.  A fellow photographer and I went in before to figure out how we would set up the strobes, and realized that we were really asking for trouble if we set the strobes up because of the limited space.  We tried using our flashes (580ex) right on our cameras and the pictures turned out beautiful!  They looked like we had used strobes!  So, yes, you can use the flash as effectively as the strobes. 

Now I know most people on here use the AB's, but I went with the Stellars mainly because they were built a little tougher (the casing isn't plastic like the AB's) and the price was about $50 less per strobe.  I love mine!  They work great.  The recycle time is a little faster than what is listed and they have SUPER customer service!

That's interesting to know. :-) Did you just use the flash on-camera? Bounce flash? Reviews on the Stellar strobes are good to hear, also.

Huh? Double post. Nevermind.

We use the 580EX as a studio and a wedding flash. We have one on camera, one on a stand. We set the ratio to 2:1 towards the off-camera flash.

They are very powerful, and can easily handle large groups, especially if you run ISO 200 (looks great with the Canon). We use a shoot thru umbrella to soften it.

That being said, I just got a B800, along with their air cushioned 13 foot stand, and all I can say is WOW. This thing is built like a brick, and it has serious power. I did a senior portrait and I never left ISO100, and I was staying in the f8-f11 range. The flash was running around 1/4  - 1/2 power, so it still could go higher.

So, while I can honestly say you can easily shoot studio with Canon's 580ex, I'm probably going to go more towards the Alien Bees in the studio. (For on-location, such as weddings, I'll still use the Canons - just much easier to manage). Having that extra power lets me get sharper images (with the higher f-stops) and cleaner images (ISO 100 vs ISO 200 - although in practice I can't tell the difference between the two settings in prints).

Hope this helps!

Shan
 

PS: The transmitter (ST-E2) is ok, but not as consistent. It runs $200, save up the extra $200 and get a second 580EX - a much better investment. Even a used 550ex would be better.

The ST-E2 takes a goofy 6v battery, only controls 2 groups, doesn't allow for manual flash mode, and obviously can't be used as fill flash. It's not as powerful as the 580, so it doesn't have the range either.

We don't use ours much anymore. We'll probably end up selling it soon.

Shan

 

I didn't read all of your posts so excuse me if this wasn't already covered, but where will you be doing most of your shooting?  100% in studio, 100% on location, 50/50?  If you're only doing studio I would go with AB's, if you're only doing on location, I'd go with two 580's with stands and the possibility of umbrellas.  If you're doing both....tough call.

We run a full photography business so we can afford more equipment.  We have three AB800s for the studio and three 580EXs as well as the ST E2 transmitter for on location.

In the studio we use anywhere from one to all three lights, usually one with a giant softbox and the other two with honeycombs for spotlighting.  On location (typically at the beach) 95% of the time I have the STE2 on my camera and one 580EX on a remote tripod.  No umbrella, no diffuser, aimed right at the subject.  Personally I think they're overrated.  When done properly, you can get pretty darn good, soft light with a 580EX aimed right at someone.

If you look at our blog, all of the beach / park photos were done this way.

I never have any trouble with my ST-E2 working out in bright sunlight at distances up to about 20'. 

All of that said, a pair of 580s on stands with umbrellas do work pretty darn well in a studio setting.  If you already have one 580, adding a second one and the stands and umbrellas is certainly cheaper than ABs.  If you're going to get AB's, my personal recommendation is to get two of them.

Hope this helps.  =)

I use my 580EX on location with the lightsphere II and I keep the dome on. It is working well for me. I used the B800 Alien Bee and a reflector for a sweetheart ball I did recently and I use it for studio work. I just got the B800 and honestly, I could have easily gotten by with the 400. I am using it at 1/4 power most of the time and only occasionally go up to 1/2 power. But, it is doubtful that I will "outgrow" it and need the 1600. I plan to get another B800 in a couple of months, but I had used continuous lighting and wanted to start with a one light set up with the strobes. I shot pictures on a white backdrop the other day and was surprised that the reflector actually reflected enough light behind my subject that my background was actually white. I'd post a picture - but they were only "practice shots" of my son being totally goofy so I deleted them all. I was only usint them to adjust my settings.

NicoleW:

monicab28:

I actually have the 580ex AND the Paterson Interfit Stellar strobes.  The flash is fantastic and can be used as a strobe, so I think that would work.  I had an event where I had to shoot 40 different families for 5 nights.  A fellow photographer and I went in before to figure out how we would set up the strobes, and realized that we were really asking for trouble if we set the strobes up because of the limited space.  We tried using our flashes (580ex) right on our cameras and the pictures turned out beautiful!  They looked like we had used strobes!  So, yes, you can use the flash as effectively as the strobes. 

Now I know most people on here use the AB's, but I went with the Stellars mainly because they were built a little tougher (the casing isn't plastic like the AB's) and the price was about $50 less per strobe.  I love mine!  They work great.  The recycle time is a little faster than what is listed and they have SUPER customer service!

That's interesting to know. :-) Did you just use the flash on-camera? Bounce flash? Reviews on the Stellar strobes are good to hear, also.

We used the flash right on the camera, no bounce.  I wish I had kept some pics from the shoot so I could show you how well it did.  Also, on the stellars--I rarely ever have to use them full power!  I usually end up having to put them on the lowest and pull the stand back--they are pretty powerful!  Most of the time they are at 1/4 to 1/2 power, though.

Just a quick recap for Shawn... I'm still building my equipment list. I need (want) a powerful camera flash, as well as need (want) studio lights. I've been using a cheesy setup that involves those twisted compact flourescents you can get at Lowe's/Menard's/Home Depot/etc. Since I'm not independantly wealthy (and very dependant on my day-job which is giving me the shaft on hours lately - don't get me started.... ) I'm just trying to find something that will work for both applications.

This time of year, I'm 100% indoors. But summer is coming (hopefully!) and I'm sure I'll do outside quite a bit, too. I'm just wondering if the expense of the 580EX and the ST-E2 is worth it. Especially when I know there are times when I'm going to be wanting to shoot with my flash off-camera. (Those two combined cost more than a single Alien Bee, I know!)

Bah.... anyone have a rich uncle and want to give me some cash? Keep the reviews coming! I am soaking up lots of info!

Here's my recommendation (what we did):

Get these in this order as budget allows:

1.  580ex + off camera cord (Gives you 3 or so feet to get off axis)
2. A second flash to use off camera - 580ex (best), 550ex (older but great), Sigma 500 (good) Canon 430ex (good). You only need 1, and if budget allows, go for the 580 - you'll end up using the power.
3. Battery packs for the flashes (Canon CP-E3 is what we use, there are better ones available if budget allows)
4. True dedicated studio flashes, such as Alien Bees

You should invest in the best light stands you can. The 13" air cushioned stand (Alien Bees, B&H, or even Ebay) is a great stand. Tall enough for high steps at churches, big enough to support the weight of a studio flash and softbox, and built well. I saw one on ebay for $50. The air cushion is a great finger and equipment saver.

Get some umbrella adapters so you can use your flashes on the lightstands. They run about $15 each from B&H, and come with a shoe to put the flash on. Some $10-$20 umbrellas for diffusion, and you can be good to go for a minimal budget, and it will grow with you down the road.

Hope this helps!

Shan 

 

Shan, thank you so much for your insight!!! :-D It helps having people who have "been there, done that" be willing to share with those who are just starting out.

B&H has a kit which consist of 2 air cushioned black lightstand, max height of 8 ft, 2 white umbrellas with a removable black back, 2 umbrella brackets all for 98.95. I bought this kit a year ago and it has worked very well for me.

8 foot is a good starter kit, but if you get an altar that's 3 or 4 steps high, suddenly it's not quite high enough.

Our first stands were 8 foot. We use them around the studio occasionally, but the 10-13 footers are used all the time.

Here's some links to check out:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1366&A=details&Q=&sku=114162&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
Nice 10", low price ($45), built well, lightweight. 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1366&A=details&Q=&sku=253066&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
Heavy duty, extra height, $53.

http://cgi.ebay.com/13-TALL-PRO-HEAVY-DUTY-AIR-CUSHIONED-LIGHT-STANDS-NEW_W0QQitemZ200074526242QQihZ010QQcategoryZ30080QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
$50, Air cushioned, 13', reputable seller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-Translucent-Shoot-Through-umbrella-Softbox-NEW-32_W0QQitemZ220085071673QQihZ012QQcategoryZ79009QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Cheap, small, but 2 umbrellas for $10 - nice price.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=50067&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
Umbrella Adapter - great

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1325&A=details&Q=&sku=362385&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
Nicer umbrella, $10 each though

 

I find that I end up bending, breaking, or otherwise destroying my umbrellas in fairly short order, especially on location. The big problem with cheaper umbrellas is they tend to yellow over time - but none have lasted that long for me! LOL

Anyway, get what you can - that 8 foot kit isn't a bad deal, and you'll use them - but if you can afford the bigger ones, it really does make a difference!

Shan
 

Shannon,

If I'm not intending to do any weddings or any setups where people will end up being higher than I am, then would you still say to get the taller 10 or 13 foot stands?

Also, since the vast majority of my work is in-home (living room size areas) what umbrella size should I go toward? Would 30" - 32" be big enough? Too big?

Thanks for letting me pick your brain!
Nicole