Any and all CC welcome.

They asked for a contemporary photo shoot,  they didn't want to look like something from the chain stores, they said.  So I took these thinking they would love the artistic nature and the symbolism.  But NOPE they hated them.  I ended up having to take "traditional O. Mills Style" pictures.  Then in the end they only bought a 5x7 each.

So tell me what did I do wrong and what can I do better next time?

 

I think they're beautiful!  Sometimes people have in their head that they are "different" or want to be "different" but they truely aren't and it's hard for them to accept.  I think they're both gorgeous shots though--don't get discouraged!

 I personnaly think they rock... It is modern, creative, your lighting and tones are delightful... Probably just a taste thing. I'm guessing if they are conservative, they wanted to be both in focus... Did you ask them? Or did they comment at all? Weird..

Yeah, I've learned this the hard way too... I ALWAYS take some creative/artsy shots AND some traditional ones in a session, even if they insist they don't want those.  Because you just never know if they'll get your particular creative choices, or if they're more conservative than they even realize.

And like everyone has said so far, these are really nice and it's the kind of shots I'd love to have with my mom and I'd put on my wall in 11x14 in a heartbeat!!

i think when customers say contemporary...they really mean not with the traditional mottled background, column prop and formal hand posing. personally, i love the artistic nature of these! my only CC would be that i like my catchlights a little higher. maybe next time someone requests "contemporary", you could show some examples to make sure they are on the same page...because it stinks when they only order a couple of prints.

I think these are fantastic! What a shame they don't like them.

I love them and they would look great matted in a frame together.

Thanks guys,  I'll take all your advice into heart.   My normal clients flip for stuff like this.  It baffled me that they didn't even like them.

Conservative for sure.

 

I like them and think you did a great job!  They asked for something different but this may have been too edgy for them. I like it though! Some people are just too picky.  I would hang these portraits in your studio so the other clients can see the contemporary style.

Michelle

Love them!

Chris

I think just a taste thing as mentioned.  I think they are beautiful, and artistic I would love photos like these.  What their problem??????

it looks to me like you "flipped' the first photo and she looks wierd.  The older woman looks much more normal (if that is an okay word) in the second photo...

 Some people that don't know photography look at the shallow DOF and think they are out of focus.

Thank you guys,  I was feeling like I was a failure!

These are gorgeous shots.. They do not know what they are talking about.

These are wonderful! I'd love to have pictures of me and my mom like this!

They both look great. I agree with Pro Images that they MAY have thought they were out of focus. Most clients don't get the "shallow DOF" thing.

BTW: I had this exact experience a year ago with a group of woman from Texas who were here visiting family. Said they didn't want chain stuff but hated the contemporary shoot they booked me for. I was crushed, but then I realized I just have to do a better job understanding what it really is they want before I agree to the job. Don't sweat it!

These are beautiful.  They may have been just looking for one portrait of the two of them and couldn't think beyond that idea.  So they're probably really happy with their 5x7s.  Unfulfilling for you--but they have what they came for!

One thing I noticed, though, was that with the lighting being from the side and not at all above, the jawline especially on the mom is undefined.  I sometimes ask the person to put their head forward about an inch when posing.  Which they then proceed to jut it out about five inches and their eyebrows go way up...but eventually they get it...  Sometimes in post processing you can add a little shadow under the chin to give more definition.

I'm no expert...just someone with very little chin! 

JPHPHOTO:

Thank you guys,  I was feeling like I was a failure!

 

NOT IN THE LEAST!!

I love love that 2nd shot. I can't understand why she wouldn't want that one. It is a really great capture. 

I like them too.  That's a tough situation.  I had a bridal session last year that the exact same thing happened.  It's tough to swallow.  That one incident made me remove bridal sessions from all packages and they now book them separately and we have a separate consultation for each bridal session booked.  

Keep doing what you're doing.  Chin up.  

Another suggestion....if someone makes that statement of they want contemporary, have them bring something to you to show you what they mean.  Whether it be a magazine, internet site, whatever.  That way you can understand what their definition is.  People often don't mean what they say. 

Thanks guys really,  all your advice is great,   I had another bad experiance today.  The pictures are all great,  I just can't help it if the person in them hates herself.

 

Yeah I'm going to have them bring in stuff they love so I know what they are talking about.

 

 Here is my take on these.  In both shots, the lighting is harsh and not necessarily flattering on the frontmost subject.  I think it probably has more to do with the straight on pose than the lighting per se, but they conspire to give them each very pronounced noses, and the angle of the head looks stiff in both...especially the first. The sharpening in the forward subjects is also particularly pronounced on their hair, making that the big eye draw rather than the face/eyes.

In both shots, while I like the concept of the out of focus second person, their placement in the shot neither provides an accent to the forward subject, nor does it direct the eye through the shot.  The issue here appears to be that they are too far back and to the side.  You probably positioned them that way to get the blur that you wanted, but what you also created was a little forced perspective, making the back subject look much smaller and somewhat dropped in the shot.

I am a big fan of your other work on your website and in past posts here (you do not post here nearly enough, your style is very chic), so the critique above does not represent a systematic issue with your shots.  I think that these just did not quite visually gel.

I think that there is middle ground in posing angles and relative positions of the subjects and lights that could have made this concept work both for you and for them.  The above examples just did not quite hit it.  Another consideration for this type of shot would be to ask their intent for display up front.  If they want it for a living room or mantle, they might not want the out of focus look, because it might imply that one is more important than the other.  Sort of a subliminal message that neither would want to convey...no matter how good the shot was.  In that case, you could suggest framing both together (as you may well have suggested).  If that is the plan, then you would likely want to work the poses of each shot to complement not only the shot individually but also the way that they would be framed together.  Not sure that made sense...

Cheers,

Jim
 

Grenache:

 Here is my take on these.  In both shots, the lighting is harsh and not necessarily flattering on the frontmost subject.  I think it probably has more to do with the straight on pose than the lighting per se, but they conspire to give them each very pronounced noses, and the angle of the head looks stiff in both...especially the first. The sharpening in the forward subjects is also particularly pronounced on their hair, making that the big eye draw rather than the face/eyes.

In both shots, while I like the concept of the out of focus second person, their placement in the shot neither provides an accent to the forward subject, nor does it direct the eye through the shot.  The issue here appears to be that they are too far back and to the side.  You probably positioned them that way to get the blur that you wanted, but what you also created was a little forced perspective, making the back subject look much smaller and somewhat dropped in the shot.

I am a big fan of your other work on your website and in past posts here (you do not post here nearly enough, your style is very chic), so the critique above does not represent a systematic issue with your shots.  I think that these just did not quite visually gel.

I think that there is middle ground in posing angles and relative positions of the subjects and lights that could have made this concept work both for you and for them.  The above examples just did not quite hit it.  Another consideration for this type of shot would be to ask their intent for display up front.  If they want it for a living room or mantle, they might not want the out of focus look, because it might imply that one is more important than the other.  Sort of a subliminal message that neither would want to convey...no matter how good the shot was.  In that case, you could suggest framing both together (as you may well have suggested).  If that is the plan, then you would likely want to work the poses of each shot to complement not only the shot individually but also the way that they would be framed together.  Not sure that made sense...

Cheers,

Jim
 

 

Jim,

I can not thank you enough for being so straight with me,  I love it when I get critiques like this,  especially the "way" you did it!  Sincerely Thank you.

I just have a few questions for you.  The ladies have quite large noses so the fact that you notice that does not surprise me.  That said,  How would you have lit this shot?

Also the poses,  I'm almost seeing what your saying,  I just wonder how I should have posed them to have better impact.

See now you opened a can of worms!

Side note,  I don't post on here regularly because I don't see it as a place to actually improve.  Back when I was posting more regularly is was a popularity contest and I just didn't want to play that game.  I also grew tired of people not willing to give a real critique because they didn't want to hurt feelings.  I'm not easily hurt and my goal is to improve with each picture I make.  When I give a critique,  it has meat.  People really need to put their ego on check when they put a picture up for critique,  otherwise how will we grow?

Okay stepping off my soap box now.

Thanks for answering my questions Jim,  I appreciate it very much! 

JPHPHOTO:

I just have a few questions for you.  The ladies have quite large noses so the fact that you notice that does not surprise me.  That said,  How would you have lit this shot?

Also the poses,  I'm almost seeing what your saying,  I just wonder how I should have posed them to have better impact.

 

Angling the head 30-60 degrees away from the camera and tilted 10-20 degrees down presents mostly one side of the nose though not a profile.  This can give the illusion of a less imposing schnoz (from one who has such a beak).  Lighting the forward side of the face, from the side further reduces the nose by putting the other side of the face in less light.  A reflector or other light can dial in how dark you want the far side to be.  I don't shoot people much, but when I do, I usually am working with natural light, so - fortunately - the angling is both out of necessity and happens to benefit the subject.  Monte Zucker may have been the one to originate this sort of geometry, I am not sure.  It certainly was not me, but it works.

As for posing the two people in the shot...if space was not a concern, I would shoot with 100-200mm for the focal length.  This would allow the DOF to be narrow but with minimal subject separation.  Also, it would help reduce perspective distortion on things like noses...though I think the pose would make more difference above than simply going longer in FL.  Especially at >/=135mm, you could essentially have the two people's bodies physically touching but one behind the other and get your blur.  f/4-f/8 would do the trick and be a matter of taste as to how much is in focus.  If longer lenses would be out of the question (e.g. confined shooting space, not in camera bag, etc.), your 76mm choice or around there could still pull it off, but at no tighter aperture than f/4...preferably more like f/2.8.  For that route, you would need to nail focus on the forward eye of the forward subject.  Placing the back person six or so inches behind would give you the blur.

Posing the back person... If the front one is facing slightly inward, flanking the other facing slightly inward as well (but from the other direction...that is, somewhat facing each other) would help to close the far edges of the image and draw the eye in a circle around the center.

 If they were meant to be framed together in the end, the concept that you had is one that I like...matte them slightly on a diagonal with the central portion being the blurred subjects, one on